The majority of Americans are responding to the traditional church’s invitation to”come meet with us on our terms ” with a polite (sometimes not so polite)”no thanks.” -Aubrey Malphurs
As I sit as ponder the question,” How 0ne loves God but hate church I become dumbfounded by the truth that rests in the statement. ” Many times in my life I have heard this and also said it myself. I hear people asking me all the time, ” do you have a church yet.” Matter of fact someone asked me that today. The last couple of months have all been the same response,”I am one of the few people you know that will tell you I love Christ but hate church.”
See I wrestle with the statement and the reason behind the statement. I do believe that their are many good churches that are doing the work of the Lord. They are seeking after the lost and teaching the word of God. But I believe that they are far and in between. Now that may be an incriminating statement for the body of Christ but I think it is true.
I have seen to many pastors that promote themselves and their knowledge more so than the grace of God. I have seen how the pastor introduces new thematic issues to the congregation and then preceded to brainwash them with stuff that he only knows. When he is challenged he proclaims that person to be out of order or causing division. This is becoming the norm for many churches. They have forgotten the importance of their mission and tried to build a spiritual conglomerate that is camouflaged by the Gospel. Once I step foot in this kind of church or any church for that matter my apologetic antenna goes up. So I start to dissect the entire message for the truth and always come to the same conclusion- the dude is wack.
You have pastor that preach the same hodgpdge every Sunday and just give it a different name. They refuse to deal with the scriptures but rely on quotes and clinches to entertain the people. The people have been so anesthetized by this garbage that when someone comes and unpacks the scripture, they do not think that he preached at all. If there was no hooping and hollering then he was lame. Though I am not a fan of the hooping I can get with it if the person is saying something in the midst.
As I wrestle through my dilemmas I try to put all this in perspective. My total dislike for church is really disheartening because I see the how beneficial it could be. The things I have to deal with come from the fact that I know my wife would really enjoy the fellowship with others that my attend certain churches. As I gage this I have to be so careful that I do not get her to look at churches like I do, but it is a little too late for that. Some of her coworkers have engaged her with spiritual folly and she kindly rocked their world.
So here stand wondering what in the world to do. I told her I am going to find one of these traditional churches without a pastor and apply for the position. But then I say I will become just like them and start playing the same game. We have been engaging in the church plant for almost a year now and I just refuse to go further because of my thoughts. I remember one Sunday taking my wife to the movies at 11:00am because I was so disturbed by the whole church scene.
Are house churches really the answer ? Let you know in a couple of weeks.
24 comments
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June 26, 2009 at 4:57 am
A. Amos Love
Brian – Can you be a little more specific.
Which church do you hate? {;o)
The Traditional Church,
The Institutional Church,
The Religious System Church,
The Steeple Corporation Church,
The 501c3, non profit, tax deductible,
Religious Corporation Church,
The Brick and Mortar Church,
The Pastor Led Church,
The Multiple Elder Led Church,
The Congregational Led Church,
The Pope Led Church,
The Bishop Led Church,
The Chief Executive Apostle Led Church,
There really is a Chief Executive Apostle
No Kidding. Saw it with my own eyes.
The Fluid Church,
The Solid Church,
The House Church,
The Simple Church,
The Organic Church,
The Small Group Church,
The Institutional Church,
Oh, i said that one already.
The Denominational Church,
The Non-Denominational Church,
The Inter – Denominational Church,
The Intra – Denominational Church,
The Underground Church,
The Full Gospel Church
The Baptist Church,
The Lutheran Church,
The Evangelical Church,
The Charis maniacle ism Church,
The Penta it’s going to cost you a lot ism Church,
AA Love
June 26, 2009 at 5:17 am
A. Amos Love
Brian – I doubt very much if you hate this church.
As I do, you probably love this church.
Jesus is the head of the body
( the Ekklesia – the called out ones) the church.
That’s me and you.
Here are a few examples to consider.
“The Church of God,” the ekklesia, us, is purchased with His blood.
“The Church of Baptist” (or what ever name) (Church of Man, Lutheran, etc)
purchases us with things that are of the world. Those things that feed the flesh.
Power, profit, prestige, salary, retirement, flattery, invitations to speak, titles, etc.
“The Church of God” is built and added to by Jesus.
I will build my church… Matthew 16:18
And the Lord added to the church daily those who should be saved. Acts 2:47
“The Church of Baptist” is built by man.
With programs, seminaries, conventions, crusades, guilt and commitment sermons, tithes and offerings sermons, bring your neighbor to church sermons, etc.
“The kingdom of God” comes not with observation, it is “within” hidden.
It is the rule, the reign, the dominion, the goverment of God in one’s heart.
This government shall be upon Jesus’ shoulders.
“The kingdom of Baptist” is “without,” names on church buildings, schools, credentials, diplomas, business cards, phone books, where it can be seen.
…let us build us a city and a tower,
whose top may reach unto heaven;
and let us make us a name… Gen 11:9
It is the rule, the reign, the dominion, the goverment of Baptists.
This government shall be upon Southern Baptists Conventions shoulders.
In “The Church of God” you serve one master, Jesus, and we are equal bretheran.
The Lord is our shephered and we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
There is, One Voice – One Fold – One Shepherd.
In “The Church of Baptist” you serve many masters, some more equal than others.
You have hierarchy, local leaders, youth leaders, church leaders, board leaders, district leaders, denominational leaders, THE denominational leader.
You have – leaders, followers – clergy, laity – shepherds, sheep – separation.
There are many voices – many shepherds – many leaders.
Be blessed in your search for truth.
In His Service. By His Grace.
June 26, 2009 at 7:01 am
Brian Foulks
Brother Amos,
Let me qualify my statements a bit. I hate the church system that presents itself as the one and only way to present Christ to the culture. What we have is a seeker friendly churches that will do anything to bring crowds. I am more concerned about people growing and maturing in their walk. So if that is a traditional church, house church or whatever then I am find. But it is so hard to find those who are so focused on mission where everything else fails in comparison. As I fellowship with other churches, I see how far many are from presenting the truth to the community.
As a friend of mine stated a week ago to me, there has to be someplace where we can go.
August 30, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Job
House churches are not the answer. This “I love God but hate the church” is simply part of modern – or should I say postmodern – western culture that rejects authority. They reject not only ecclesiastical authority as illegitimate, but also institutional authority and scriptural authority. Because of our sin nature, the natural human impulse is to rebel, and several decades of anti-establishment messages in our society (i.e. the schools, the media, and yes including the clergy, especially the civil rights movements and other professional agitators) who have most of the population convinced that leadership and authority are inherently corrupt and only exist to withhold truth from you, to keep you down, and that you should be free to discover the truth for yourself and within yourself because a loving God will accommodate your desire to do what you want to do in order to be happy.
This really is as old as the lie of Satan to Even in the Garden of Eden, who convinced Eve that God was trying to exert illegitimate authority over her, trying to keep her down, trying to hold her back, that it was all some conspiracy to stop her from “really being you!” It is the pride of life. That is why you hear all of these rants against organized religion these days. They claim that it has nothing to do with the religion, but rather the organization, the idea that a pastor (or scripture, or at least a standard orthodox interpretation of it) ought to have any authority over you, that they have any right to tell you what to do, especially if they tell you that you have to believe a certain thing to go to heaven, or that you have to live your life a certain way or else be an unrepentant sinner. So that is why people are rejecting religion and church in favor of personalized worship … faith and “spirituality.”
It shows how far and how fast New Age has made inroads into our culture. The idea that Christianity was simply this tool of oppression and control to hide the truth from people, oppress them, and keep them from unlocking their human potential, and withhold happiness from them by declaring self-fulfilling and enjoyable behavior as “sin” was the lure of the New Age movement from the beginning, as well as of a bunch of various other religions (i.e. wicca, gnosticism, theosophy – the religion of George Lucas and Dan Brown of the Da Vinci Code and other things that promote pagan and feminine spirituality) and also of liberal radical movements, many of whom were secular but heavily influenced liberal theologians.
And that is what is ultimately behind the emergent church, which is really a merger between the more man-centered evangelical Christianity, New Age, and some elements of monastic or mystic Catholicism, and that is the driving force behind many house churches. Instead of accepting Bible-based churches as having flaws that inevitably result from even the best efforts of people who are born again but still human and imperfect and recognizing that these churches still preach a message that saves people and opposes the evil one, they use the flaws as an excuse to claim the whole system to be corrupt and reject the need to be under any authority, whether that authority be denomination, pastor, husband/father (in the case of women and children), and especially SCRIPTURE. It was similar to how Israel used the flaws of Samuel’s sons as an excuse to reject the will of God and demand a king. Also, the Bible predicts that in the last days, in the time before the great apostasy, the great falling away, people will become filled with pride and rebellion and reject Godly authority. As a matter of fact, this sort of behavior was the original meaning of the term “heretic.” Heretic is now applied to those who preach false doctrines, but originally it simply meant schismatic, someone who rejected the authority of the leaders in the Body of Christ and went their own way because of pride and rebellion. Granted, the Roman Catholics said the same of Protestants (and still do to this day) but there is a difference between leaving a body because they reject wholesale scripture (the Catholics) and using the shortcomings of a flawed but basically Bible-believing congregation as an excuse to run off. In the former case, it is people trying to get back under the authority of scripture. In the latter case, it is people falsely using the failure of people to perfectly fulfill scripture (when the only one who ever did that was Jesus Christ!) as an excuse to completely get out from the authority of scripture themselves.
These folks know full well that there are plenty of good churches and pastors out there. They just use the bad churches and pastors as an excuse to reject church altogether, because just like Israel who wasn’t really rejecting Samuel, it isn’t church that they are rejecting but the authority of God over their lives and the imperative to serve God as God commands us to serve Him. Instead of trying to fulfill the scriptural mandate to serve God the way that God commands us to serve Him, they are looking for ways to justify their serving God the way that they want to serve Him, and when they do this they are no longer serving the true God, but a false god, a god of their own invention who gives them license to do as they please.
God never said that serving Him would be easy. He never said that obeying Him would be easy. Instead, the Bible consistently tells us the opposite. He only said that service and obedience would be possible for those who sincerely wish to attain this goal, and even there this goal is only attained with God’s help.
It is amazing, these people. Recall Jesus Christ to the Pharisees who criticized His healing on the Sabbath. He asked them if their ox fell into a pit during the Sabbath, how many of them would go and immediately pull the ox out. (Oxen cost a lot of money, and there was a great chance of the ox dying in the pit if he stayed in there too long.) These people are the same. If they have to move away to another city, relocate all the way across the country in order to go to college, get married, to get a job, or to keep a job, they’ll do it in a heartbeat. If their place of employment tells them to move from Miami to Seattle, they’ll be on the next plane, especially if they are vested with their benefits or if the job market is tight, and leave behind friends, relatives, their church etc. without a second thought. It is commonly done in this culture and fully accepted. As a matter of fact, you are likely to get criticized for NOT being willing to relocate and significantly alter your lifestyle in order to get a job, keep a job, or get the education or training required for a job.
But how many of these same people complaining about the lack of good churches around would move to find one? Not that I am putting these people on a pedestal, but just using them as an example. How many of them would move to Texas to join up with Tim Conway, Voddie Baucham or Paul Washer? How many would move to California to join up with John MacArthur? Or go to Minnesota to join John Piper’s church? Oh, I’ll move from Manhattan to New Mexico to Des Moines to keep my job knowing good and well that they reserve the right to lay me off at any time even if I do relocate, but because I had bad experiences with the four or five churches that are within a 30 minute drive of my house, I am going to reject the whole church thing and strike out on my own? And the idea that I have faith and confidence in the idea that it is God’s will and pleasing to the Lord for me to be in a good church, so if I relocate to find a good church God will honor that action by supplying my material needs? Perish the thought!
The early Christians – and many Christians since including many yet today in places like China, Burma, and in many Muslim countries – were persecuted to the point of death because they WANTED to go to church and the government and religious leaders wouldn’t let them. But now in America and the west, we can go to church freely but choose not to because it is somewhat harder to find a good church than it is to find a good seafood restaurant. That shows that Christians value seafood more than obeying Hebrews 10:25.
August 30, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Brian Foulks
Greetings Brother Job,
Thank you for coming through a leaving your thoughts. Though I am may not agree with all that you are saying i do think that dialogue is always warranted and welcomed. Let me first start by saying I am not against house churches or for house churches. Just as institutional churches (ic) have problems so do house churches. But the confusion for me comes with your presentation.
You make it seem as if house churches came upon the scene with the postmodern era. Yes I do believe that the post modern era had brought somethings to the table that the church must deal with but truthful it was good thing. What the postmodern age did was show the church its flaws up close and personal. It made the church get down and deal with things instead of throwing scriptures out with no actions. But when it comes to house churches that was all over scriptures.(Acts 16:40,Acts 20:8, romans 16:3-5 and countless others) Truth be told alot of the time when you hear about churches it was the Pharisees and Sadducees that went to church. You do find instances of the apostle going to the temple to pray but it was nothing like we have church today.
We have a Constantinian church concept here in America and we follow almost to the script. Elevated pulpits, large choirs , pastor in elaborate wardrobe was all things that came from Constantine. So for you to make the statement as if house churches are just rebelling against authority is wrong. Secondly it appears as if you church is a building or an organization. The church is neither of those things and I must disagree with your presentation of what church entails. The church is the called out ones as you probably already know I am sure. So how to you get going to a building once a week as being the church. The church is a group of people bottom line. Now when you use Hebrews 10:25 it is interesting that insinuate that he is talking about church attendance. but in the context of the scripture he is talking about one hiding himself from others because they have sinned. The Apostle Paul advises them not to do such a thing as others have done.Please let me know where in that passage of scripture did he mention church.
At the end of t he day brother you have the same disdain for house churches that I have for institutional churches. But I attend an institutional church and have been apart of many house churches. it appears that you have an ought against house churches that has nothing to do with scripture but your personal dislike. mine has to do with the message that are not scripturally based and the lack of concern for those outside of the church.
August 30, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Lionel
Job,
I am part of “house church”. And my favorite theologians are Piper, MacArthur, Sproul, Goldsworthy, Keller, Dale Ralph Davis and Grudem. Can you explain what you mean by your comments? Your words sting and it is stained with slander, misrepresentations, and outright lies. We uphold the Trinity, Salvation by Grace (actually all 5 of the solas), we believe in a literal virgin birth, we believe in the ressurection of Christ and our future ressurection. We believe in the Lordship of Christ. A few of us that meet with hold to Sovereign Soteriology, some are a bit more Armininian, we believe in the proper exegesis of the scripture, I hold to a Christocentric Hermeneutic. I believe in particular atonement. I believe in the substitionary atoning work of Christ. So what of this hocus pocus group of “new age”, “emergent” Christians? I don’t know any of these gentleman. I would appreciate if you explain your experience with such indviduals and even so, Creflo, Hinn, Copeland, Swaggart, Olsteen, and a slew of others meet in “traditional churches”, what if I lumped these gentleman in the same vein as Piper and the others and said, man “the house church is the way to go”? The more I type the more upset I get, you have misrepresented the house church grossly and I am sure that Jesus is not proud of you slandering His body this way, just because we decide to meet differently than you. But I guess I should be use to it, Jesus says “a new commandent I give you that you love one another” this is what the New Covenant is guided by, you have failed to employ this New Covenant command, but not this one alone, a slew of other “one anothers”.
August 31, 2009 at 12:58 am
Job
Lionel and Brian:
Rats. I really need to stop doing stuff like this. I wish that I could tell you to delete my comment, but I cannot do what is undone. I am sorry. When I go off on rambling rants I expose my pride and immaturity, fail to articulate my actual point, and do more to distract from what I was trying to say.
Lionel and Brian, wow, I guess I should say that you all are probably thinking “If churches are filled with people like this Job fellow, then I am right for choosing a house church!” And based on my comments and how I represented myself, you are 100% right. I did a horrible job of representing Christianity and more importantly I misrepresented Jesus Christ with my angry, accusing, judgmental, hypocritical words. I really do have to stop popping off and going off like that, especially against people who have experienced real problems in the church and are talking about real issues.
Ah well, what is done is done, and all I can do is again apologize and ask for forgiveness. Allow me to just say what I should have said in the beginning before I went on my prideful, even hateful rant.
Brother, do not despair, there are good churches out there. You just may simply need to broaden your search. But if the Lord has commanded you to fellowship at a house church or lead a house church, then be obedient to His commands, and to God be the glory, because it is all about pleasing God and not man.
Thank you and in the Name of Jesus Christ may God bless you, you and all your houses! Solus Christus, soli deo gloria, and maranantha!
August 31, 2009 at 12:59 am
Job
Still mis-speaking. that should have been “I cannot undo what has been done.”
August 31, 2009 at 3:48 am
Brian Foulks
Job,
I stand for truth brother. I like to build with others but I too must also be careful not let my pride surface.
September 30, 2009 at 7:27 am
Andrew Kulp
Brian –
You left a comment on my blog a while ago regarding church planting. We have now relocated to the Baltimore area. If you’re nearby, I’d love to meet with you over a cup of coffee and talk through and pray through some of your frustrations.
We’ve pretty much gone full-circle in recent years. We’ve gotten fed up with the traditional church, left, and went back. We went to a newer church for a while and loved it for a season but got frustrated. We’ve hated the weak in theology. We’ve despaired over those who speak half-truths and those who are just plain wrong. We’ve cried over those who abuse their calling and leadership. We are confused by those who reject biblical forms of leadership. We’ve wanted to bash people over the head for not understanding our frustrations. Even today, some of our closest relatives and friends don’t understand why we want to start a church that is different than the church they go to.
We’ve come to a point where we understand that all of that is OK. God works in each of us in different ways . . . but the one universal thing we all have in common is our need for God’s grace and forgiveness.
No matter what one of those people described above is doing wrong . . . it comes from the same need for that grace and forgiveness that I need.
I have also found that some of the things I get frustrated about the most are extreme versions of my own struggles. When I start to look at the log in my own eye, the specks I get so frustrated about in other peoples’ eyes don’t seem so problematic.
God is still sovereign. Even when the messenger is messing up, He can get the message through when He wants to. We need to trust truth first in our own ministries, and then in the ministries of others.
November 3, 2009 at 8:55 am
John
My family experiences have not been all bad, but certainly not all good. Seems the “Come just as you are” slogan is just that, but not practiced much. We go and participate and help and get bombarded with you need to change this or that, or what are your hurts we will help you fix you, or whatever! Here, read this or watch that.
My wife and I are SICK of it!
We absolutely Love the Lord with all our hearts but are so fed up with church that we just don’t know what to do anymore.
November 3, 2009 at 9:25 am
Brian Foulks
John,
I continue to wrestle with the whole church set up myself. attend a tradiitonla baptist church and teach bible study. I try to convey the truth of the scriptures while there as well. In do this anything that is not congreunt tothe scriptures I do my best to observe.
It is hard when church traditions trump the truth of scripture. It is sad that many churches still pull the come as you are slgan but really do not live by it. All i know to do is stay in fellowship with believers whether that is on the context of church or just breaking bread.
Let me ask you one last question; How would set church up if you were the pastor?
November 3, 2009 at 10:06 am
John
Now that’s one pest of a question! (I love a good challenge)
All I really have to go by is what I feel that were my BEST experiences in church.
I think that I would want it all to start (Sunday) with a good worship service that starts off uplifting and winds up worshipful followed by prayer. My sermons would be simple yet challenging WITHOUT a whole lot of my own (not too great past) tossed in for whatever measure! I hopefully would not miss an opportunity to invite those who do not or may wish to rededicate there lives to Christ and provide as many resourses as I could to help them grow.
I would have to put my own agenda asside and allow people to serve as they feel led (hopefully guided by scripture) but therein lies the root problem. If man Pastor or whomever sets or administers guidelines that may or may not be backable by scripture then one may be limiting the call of Christ on an individual weather intentional or not. I’ve have seen too many “Biblical Guides” interpret, verry convincingly certain truthes to squelch things that they are not or do not want in “their” church.
ie; Our current Pastor is a huge supporter of overseas missions yet is seemingly oblivious to the needs of our local community in certain areas.
I won’t start “Pastor Bashing” so will end by saying that we are the body, with many parts, all having important functions and none more important then that of another. We must all work together to be functional. This is why I believe that the “Come just as you are” should be much more then a slogan but a call to those who are needed in the body to make it complete. No, not everyone is called to be all mushy, lovey and huggie, yet I love them who are, even though I would be satisfied with a “Holy High Five”.
My wife and I have been married for 15 years and we are not in it to change one another, but I change daily because of my love for her.
I’m sorry to say that the “Church” is not so content with her bride.
The origional question of “how would I do it” with a summed up answer….
I really don’t know! How does one keep a sort of (human) order without hurting people?
November 3, 2009 at 10:36 am
Brian Foulks
This is what I wrestle with myself brother. I like the house/organic church model but I also see the benefit of having traditional church when done right. I do think you present a valid point that addresses the need for everyone tobe at a place that they can share their talents. Once again we are backed against a wall because as you said, ” How does one keep a sort of (human) order without hurting people?”
This was my thought this morning;I wonder do Americans really have a global sense of the scriptures or do we just think that they apply to Americans only.
November 3, 2009 at 10:46 am
A. Amos Love
“The Ideal Church”
Enjoying the conversation. It is quite a challenge.
Thought you might enjoy this post.
It was posted just a few days ago.
“The Ideal Church”
Oct 30, 09
http://www.billheroman.com/
Br blessed in your search for truth… Jesus
November 3, 2009 at 11:35 am
John
Brian,
I believe that the Scriptures are global and that they apply to everyone believer and non believer alike. I see many instances where Gods promises are true for all. Especially in giving! You will notice that the most successfull buisnesses give generously to their communities. These obviously blessed individuals are often not what I would consider a brother or sister in Christ and probably for the most part LOST in sin and desperately searching.
This all gets back to the church thing. Some churches will even go to the extent of withholding buisness from a local merchant because they are not Christian, if this could possibly be a good idea, then how on earth are we to live like Christ? After all, Jesus hung with the “Wrong Crowd” all the while showing love (not approval).
How can any of us rightly judge this? I think it’s up to God, not me.
By the way, I’m really enjoying this conservation.
November 3, 2009 at 11:38 am
John
Also read the “Ideal Church”
Good stuff, printed it off and will take it home and study with my wife.
Wish I could visit with you gentlemen all day.
Thank you all so much.
November 3, 2009 at 12:27 pm
John
One last thought before I go home,
I heard a statement several weeks ago that really hits hard.
–”People are leaving the “Church” to protect their faith”–
This was a statement from a denominational district leader, for whatever that’s worth.
What do you say?
November 4, 2009 at 12:12 am
brian foulks
John,
I also read the “Ideal Church ” and I must say that it is one of the closest model I have seen to what I view church as through the lens of scripture. And your quote,”People are leaving the “Church” to protect their faith” is something that the body of Christ really needs to think about. That is a massive statement that has so much truth.
I was one of those people. I just read a book called Surprising Insights by Thom Rainer and he shows how the unchurched want to pastors to be more doctrinal in their presentations because they want to learn. I says that most pastor spend less than 2 hours a week preparing their message.
November 4, 2009 at 12:19 am
Brian Foulks
Amos,
The “Ideal Church” was money brother.
November 4, 2009 at 8:08 am
A. Amos Love
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Brian – John
Isn’t one of our greatest challenges, the way we use and understand words?
A simple word “Church.”
What do you see and understand?
A building with a steeple on it?
Is that in the Bible?
Pastors in pulpits preaching to people in pews?
Is that in the Bible?
We ask, what is the “Church?”
How do we do “Church.”
When we could ask – WHO is the Church?
Did Jesus shed His blood for a building, a business,
an institution, an organization, a denomination, or a corporation?
In the USA you have to ask the IRS if you can become a church. HUH?
And you fill out a form, a 501 (c) (3), if they give the okay, you become
a legal church, you become a
501 (c) (3), non profit, tax deductible, religious corporation.
So all these places that we have been calling “church” are really corporations.
And they are run like a corporation, a business.
Should we call a corporation “The Church of God?”
And we have been deceiving the people we’re trying to reach.
Did anyone in the Bible ever go to “Church?”
Or did those who were “disciples of Christ” become the “Church?
Jesus, the head of the body (the ekklesia, the called out one’s) the “Church.”
Isn’t the “Body of Christ” and “Church” one and the same?
Brian, you wrote,
“As a friend of mine stated a week ago to me,
there has to be someplace where we can go.”
There is a place to go. His name is Jesus. Why isn’t Jesus enough?
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear “my voice;”
and there shall be “one fold,” and “one shepherd.”
John 10:16
One Fold – One Shepherd – One Voice.
If Not Now, When?
In His Service. By His Grace.
November 11, 2009 at 12:29 pm
John
Thanks guys, this has been some good stuff. I quoted some in our councel meeting last night.
My wife and I were talking on the way home about how church terminology has come up with lables for everything such as “Season”
Seems that some have this idea that ones “Ministry” only lasts for a season.
Here is what we’ve come up with that may be scratching at the surface of this deep subject.
Using our own experiences,
I’ve been a musician on praise teams, operate A.V. Equipment, taught youth and currently serve on our church councel. My wife has taught childrens Sunday school, served as nursery coordinator and is currently secretary at the church we attend.
We have been foster parrents and even worked at a Christian children’s home for a time.
Seems like alot of stuff, but with each move we feel a little more “Burned”
Thus, we came up with this annalogy,
We are fruits that have been “Juiced” and the left over waste, being no good anymore, is cast aside, or thrown away.
Leaders would tell us that “this Season of our ministry is over”.
We have be stay humble and not complain which we try earnestly to do though sometimes it’s quite hard. Such as when I was asked to put up my bass and play the ‘clavi’ (whacking sticks together) so that we could allow a new member to play bass. OK, I did this, I didn’t complain (untill now) (and yes I realize that this is unforgiveness that I must deal with) I played my clavi and some percussion as unto the lord and then was asked to step asside and sing in the choir when another new member knew how to play percussion. And yes I went along with this too.
Side note:
Reading this one might think that I am either not a good musician, or a trouble maker, please let me assure you that this is not the case. I am generally quiet and though a long way from professional, I can play most stringed instruments and some percussion fairly well. I love the Lord with all my heart and would never intentionally bring disshonor to His name or disruption within our or any fellowship.
Anyway, this is the kind of stuff that we see over and over in churches. It has probably happened to all of us in one way or another.
If not the way I described above then, by sheer burnout, watch your nursery workers and how often they are in church but never hear a message. They work tirelessly and don’t complain. But when they do it’s generally big and feelings get hurt and people quit and leave churches.
Could this possibly be some root reason as to the discontentedness. maybe the lack of care for those who do the work as volunteers, we just “use em and juice em and throw the leftovers out”
I think this may be a crude way to put it but it’s the way I see it.
We had a ladies Bible study leader in our church who was simply pushed asside when another wanted to start teaching.
Yeh, She quit!
What an end to a great service!!!
November 11, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Brian Foulks
Let me preface this with a wow. Man it is crazy that the place you are suppose to find solace is the very place you find grief. I find so many people quoting Hebrews 10:25 as if the magic word is church. (the building that is)
I believe we have done such an injustice to the body of Christ as a whole because in the very place we call scared we have misused power and position. John I like the analogy you use with the juiceing. It seems to be appropriate for what you said. I think your walk shows how we all should behave if we are in the situation. Do everything unto the Lord? We would then truly show off the effect of community in operation.
November 11, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Brian Foulks
Amos,
There is definitely no church without Jesus and the solace is within him but the hubbing togther in community is what I am getting at. We can’t be a island out on our own that are just godly with no interaction with the world. the point is to build community of believers that will then engage other with the gospel.